ALS: THE INTERVIEW PRESENTS RICH MACKNEY! (PART 3 OF 3)

The Power of Friendship
John & Joyce join me with Rich!
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Manning: Rich, at the end of each interview, I ask my guests if they would like to summarize their appearance by making any point they want. I know you're continuing every day to be active and not passive with the ALS. The floor is yours!

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Mackney: Michael, when you first hear somebody tell you that you've been diagnosed with a terminal illness, and you ought to go home and prepare with your family to die, it's a shock to your system. You'll find that there are fighters or a run-awayer's. In my experience, if you're not going to stand and fight, you're only going to hasten your demise. I also understand that there are probably fewer fighters out there than there are people resigned to their fate. And so I think, on the one hand, I'm glad I'm like me. I want to fight. You can never do that looking the other way and beat this disease. But in addition, I want to continue sharing information with all the many people out there who are not necessarily fighting--to give them some hope, understanding that this is not standing still. It's moving---slowly---but it's moving. If the last 12 months is any indication, the next 2 or 3 years will see us moving ahead by leaps and bounds. We just need to hang in there for the ride. We do everything we can to stay hanging on.

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Manning: Is there anything my readers can do to help push things forward beyond a letter to a Congressman or Representative?

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Mackney: I think it's very simple. If you would be kind enough to point your readers to my BLOG, so they can stop and see the research I post there...

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Manning: Yes!

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Mackney: ..They will find opportunities not only for ALS, but how this technology touches so many other things. If your readers find something that is interesting to them for their family, for their loved ones, then I think it would be great if we opened up communication with their legislators and point them to the same research and ask the question: 'What are you doing to see that this comes faster in our lifetime for my loved one who has Cancer? ...or my loved one who has Parkinson's disease? ...or my loved one who has kidney failure? ...or my loved one who has a busted spinal cord?' I think that if the approach is multi-variable as that it will have a bigger impact, because then it's not one person with one disease who is screaming into the wind. It's a whole bunch of people saying this one technology--this stem cell technology is capable of fixing a whole range of diseases and illnesses. 'What are you doing, Mr. Representative to make sure that this government makes sure to bring this care to me and my family sooner than later?' I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity to share my story and my thoughts with you and your readers.

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Manning: Thank you, Rich.

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Note from Michael: I have learned many lessons from my incredible friend Rich Mackney. Among them, I've learned to be more patient and diplomatic--which hopefully makes me a better Gentleman! But I've also experienced in Rich a Generosity and Kindness towards mankind balanced by the Mental Toughness, Courage and Dedication required to fight Lou Gehrig's Disease. I am very grateful to Rich for making this interview possible. Here is an important piece of information, as I know many of you reading this interview worldwide will want to remain in touch with Rich's progress:

Website Contact for The Rich Mackney Warriors:
http://themackneywarriors.wordpress.com
This is a GREAT way to stay in touch with Rich!

Together we can win the fight against Lou Gehrig's Disease!
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ALS: THE INTERVIEW PRESENTS RICH MACKNEY! (PART 2 OF 3)

These photos remind me of the indomitable spirit of Friendship. Last month, 22 of us showed up at the Walk to Defeat ALS and we pushed Rich in his wheelchair 3 miles around Tempe, Arizona Town Lake.
In this photo, captured a couple of weeks earlier at Rich's fundraiser there were over 200 people! There was also a live rock band, dancing and celebration. There are many members of "The Mackney Warriors". I joined Bill and Wolfgang pictured here with Rich!

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In this installment, I asked Rich to cover an excellent point he made with me during one of our conversations several weeks earlier. I felt it was a powerful point to be made and Rich agreed to recap for me some fascinating insights into Stem Cell Research. Let's pick up our conversation...

Manning: One of the things we talked about before that was a great point that you made was that all too often when we're talking about Cancer research, we focus on Cancer. With Parkinson's, we focus on Parkinson's and so forth. But if we were able to get representatives from every different disease that could potentially benefit from stem cell research, that might accelerate progress. Am I understanding that correctly?

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Mackney: I think you're exactly right, Michael. In fact, my understanding of this technology is that once we begin to unlock the secret of how you instruct a stem cell to do a certain job, then creating a data base of instructions that cover a whole host of different problems, sicknesses and diseases will come very, very quickly. The problem we have today in the U.S. is that the FDA mandates a multi-year process of clinical trials that starts in a petri dish in a lab and that moves on to mice and rats, and that moves on to a small handful of people and then moves on to a slightly larger larger group of people. Then 5, 7, 10 years after you started, the FDA will say, 'Now you can use this therapy on the masses'. I'm saying, we have to break the stranglehold that the FDA and big Phama have on slowing down the pace of stem cell research proper and create a mechanism in this country to allow terminally ill people to stand up and sign a waiver saying, 'We understand there are no guarantees. But we are living in a very shortened time line. We're seeing so far, that this type of stem cell therapy doesn't seem to hurt you, so we're willing to take the risk that this might just slow down the progression of the disease. So, I'm willing to accept the risks, why won't you let me try?'

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Manning: Sure.

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Mackney: And that speaks to, unfortunately, the nature of this country to sue anybody for anything all the time because there's money to be made. We need to figure out how to stop that because it's standing in the way of helping people stay alive to live.

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Manning: The plan that you and I talked about this past summer was one that I felt was very straight forward and well planned out--it was 'Let's try and slow it (ALS) down this year, stop it next year and reverse it the following year'. Is that still your plan?

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Mackney: That is absolutely my plan! Based on what I just told you, I do feel that I will have to continue to look outside of this country this year to slow down the progression of my disease and look outside of the country next to stop the progression of the disease, and I'm hoping that the year after, that we have found a way to open the eyes of our legislators and control agencies in this country so that we can be applying what will be proven methods of stopping and reversing this disease.

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Manning: One of the things that struck me about the point that you made in an earlier conversation we had was that if you were testifying tomorrow morning to Congress, and you asked the question: 'Would everyone in this room raise your hand if you have anyone in your family or a loved one who has a disease or an illness?' There would be a large show of hands!

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Mackney: Most assuredly!

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Manning: So, the question then becomes 'Why would you stand in the way of keeping this technology even one day from your loved ones?' And that's really what confounds me. It's a really frustrating process. Perhaps it's politics, perhaps it's...a number of things. But it's a very frustrating bottle neck.

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Mackney: I think if you look at health care in this country today, you find that the priority is not based on curing you of your illness. The priority is on treating your symptoms. I understand that in the case of big Pharma, it would be highly desirable to treat your symptoms and keep them in check for your entire life, because that means a big tremendous windfall for them. And I don't see them trying to find a cure tomorrow, because their money stream would come to an end. When you look at how tightly related big Pharma is to representatives and to the FDA directly, I think we have a system that has existed for many decades that cannot easily be undone. So, I think we need to be able to understand that possibly it is going to take being there in the stem cell arena that is developed in the near term outside this country, and then have people like me who one day soon can show up in Washington with my own representative and say, 'Look at me. I've stopped my disease. Look at me. I've reversed my disease. Look at me. This is what I did. This is the Science that helped me. I'm one of thousands of data points that exist today. How can we fast-track this tomorrow through the FDA and bring this therapy to the millions of Americans who can take advantage of this now?'

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Manning: We've seen an example of this, I think, in the U/S. Army where there was some research that found from the depths of the sea, some micro-organisms that you told me about where if someone suffered a gash--for example--and they were bleeding, they could put this paste of micro-organisms directly onto the wound and stop the bleeding. And I understand that when the Army heard about this and saw the potential for saving lives on the battlefield, it was fast-tracked through without any of these problems with the FDA. If only we could do this now!

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Mackney: I think that's a good example, Michael. What it says is that if you have a very promising technology and you also have a customer who has a tremendous amount of clout of with our own government who sees we can manage this from the technology, that you'd have a fantastic one-two punch to take this and ramrod a very positive therapy through the system in a fast pace. Personally, I feel stem cell therapy is ten-times more beneficial than this (current medical) therapy, which is very good in its own right. So, we just have to find someone we can show this to who has a lot of clout with our government to go to Washington and say, 'We need this now'.

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Coming Up Next: The Conclusion of Our Visit and more...

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Website Contact for Rich Mackney Warriors:
http://themackneywarriors.wordpress.com
Stay in touch with Rich!

Together we can win the fight against Lou Gehrig's Disease!

ALS: THE INTERVIEW PRESENTS RICH MACKNEY! (PART 1 OF 3)

My Special Guest: Rich Mackney
Visit: http://themackneywarriors.wordpress.com

Block Party with Brittany & Sedona

These neighborhood girls unselfishly turned over money generated from candy sales originally intended to finance a Cheerleaders trip to California to Rich's Medical Fund. These girls are truly an example of what is right about our world!

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From Michael: In December, 2007 I relocated to Phoenix, Arizona attracted by the warm climate and a badly needed change of scenery. I also needed to improve my health. So, by March of 2008 I began working out at a renowned Athletic Rehabilitation Center.

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During my long workouts, I noticed a very tall man who made it a point to make the rounds and visit with every patient lying on a workout table, seated on a recumbent bicycle or running on a treadmill. Standing at 6 feet 4 inches in height, this cyclist and all-around athlete had a remarkable gift for putting each of us at ease while urging us to "fight on" to reach our goals. Many young athletes were facing uncertain futures and they felt tense. All of us were overcoming some obstacle of one kind or another in our physical fitness. Enter Rich Mackney. He asked excellent questions and listened carefully. He was genuinely interested in each of our life stories and over time, a core group of us came to admire, love and respect this young businessman with a wife and family. In March, 2008 Rich developed the early signs of ALS (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis) more commonly known as Lou Gehrig's Disease. Last December, he was positively diagnosed with the disease. My friends John, Joyce, Bill and others too numerous to mention here--truly--made a transition. We were not only Rich's friends; we became Official members of "The Mackney Warriors", committed to urging Rich to "fight on" to win the war against ALS. As hard as it is to believe, 18-months have passed. Over the summer, I asked Rich at his birthday party if he would consider being a Guest on my BLOG Page feature, "The Interview". He accepted my invitation. We taped his appearance on Sunday evening. This morning, newly diagnosed patients and their families who are conducting searches on the topic of ALS, Lou Gehrig's Disease, or Rich Mackney will find this visit on the worldwide web crawler.

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There is no known cause or a cure for ALS at this time. With remarkable candor and a Determination to chart his own course to slow down the disease this year, stop it in 2010 and reverse it by 2011 Rich endeavors to bring HOPE to others who are facing ALS and a host of other diseases including Cancer, Parkinson's and Multiple Sclerosis. For Rich, there are two options: run away or stay and fight to live. He chooses to fight. Our 65 minute visit went like this:

Manning: For someone, Rich, who may not be familiar with ALS, what is it?

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Mackney: Michael, ALS stands for amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, more commonly known in this country as "Lou Gehrig's Disease" after the famous baseball player. It is a disease that affects the motor neurons of the brain and spinal cord and over time, it kills off the motor neurons causing a loss of muscle control in the body. ALS begins in two classic ways. It can begin in your limbs--in your arms and legs which begin to weaken, or it can start in your upper extremities where you notice your speech and breathing begin to be affected by muscle loss. ALS affects, currently, about 30,000 people in the United States. But the shocking thing is that new diagnoses' are now exceeding 5,000 new cases per year. The average ALS patient survives anywhere from 2 to 5 years after diagnosis. A smaller number of people do survive for a longer period of time ranging from 7 to 10 years and in a very rare case, you have someone notable like Dr. Stephen Hawking who's still alive today--even though he's in his late 50's and he was first stricken when he was 28 years-old. So, why it affects people differently? We don't understand yet, and that's one of the sad things about ALS. Since there are relatively few cases of it in the United States, it does not--unfortunately--get the same amount of attention in the scientific world as do other mainstream diseases, like Cancer, for example. So, the research work in ALS is still sorely lacking.

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Manning: What has your approach been in your situation (after being diagnosed)? How have you responded?

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Mackney: Well, first of all Michael, in my case, I have to tell you that I believe that I inherited it from my mother who also died of ALS, and her mother died of Parkinson's Disease--another motor neuron disease. In my mind there is something genetic in my family that promotes the onslaught of the disease. That being said, inherited ALS today is only found in about 20 percent of the cases., while 80 percent of the cases are what's known as sporadic. They just happen. We don't understand why. There is a growing consensus as Science begins to advance that there are a host of influences on our genetic makeup that allow certain mutations to take place over time as we age. And then, coupled with that, there is a growing body of evidence that suggests that our greater environment--that means not only the air we breathe, but the products we use in our homes, our personal care and the output of technology from microwaves to electro-magnetic pulses to other aspects of technology that we will only fully understand in terms of health impact after we've been using them for 10, or 20, or 30 years. All of that is only slowly now being unraveled. So we think, mainly, first you have these genetic mutations that makes you a candidate for this or any host of other diseases. Secondly, the greater environment we're living in--over time pushes you over the edge. Some very interesting statistics exist right now. The first is that in the field of high endurance athletes, the rate of ALS diagnosis is almost double of the normal population. In the case of American servicemen and women serving in Desert Storm, Iraq and Afghanistan, the rate is also about double of the normal population and affecting a greater percentage of younger people. So, when you combine the effects of the cases of the Army, the very serious inoculations you receive before you go overseas, and then the harsh life in hot, dusty, chemical-laden desert climate in the Middle East, we put together all the pieces that allow the body to be weakened to the point where they, in fact, find the onslaught of the diseases like ALS.

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Manning: Wow! You've taken some very positive, aggressive steps in terms of your treatment. Could you tell us about what you have done?

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Mackney: First and foremost, Michael, I have to say that my experience with ALS and certainly with comparing notes with other ALS patients is that when you are told by your doctor that you have ALS, there is a great tendency for the medical world to them tell you there isn't any real hope right now, so therefore, go home and prepare to die. Fortunately for me, that isn't my nature. I began to research globally what is being done along the lines of all research--meaning everything from drug therapy all to the way to the very exciting field of stem cell therapy. Now, I've found opportunities outside the United States to give experimental stem cell therapy to me whereas in the United States that is not possible without the approval of the FDA (Food and Drug Administration). And that process, unfortunately in this country, takes many, many years to happen. And it's difficult for someone who's been told who is the average ALS patient that you have a 2 to 5 year timeline and then you look at the FDA and you find that they work on a 5 to 10 year timeline and you realize you're going to be gone before they ever approve anything that might be able to help me. So, my approach was to look globally. I first went in March of this year to Germany to take advantage of some experimental stem cell therapy, which unfortunately has not been beneficial for me. On the other hand, I'll say that it also has not hurt me. And more recently, in July, I went to a facility in San Diego that has developed some new advances in stem cell therapy and operate out of a clinic in Mexico where they have Mexican government approval to go directly into human trials in cases of terminal illnesses. Again, I don't feel I've gotten any advantage from the therapy done in July. Then again, I don't think it hurt me either. I know from my research that we are making huge advances in updated stem cell research. And I see every week, a growing body of data that says more and more innovation of finding success in creating stem cells from simple things like skins cells, or fat cells, or liver cells, so that we can tale a small piece of you and now create and innovate millions and billions of stem cells of your generic makeup. The advantage in this is that we no longer have the ethical dilemma that surrounds embryonic stem cell research. Science has gotten away now from needing to use viruses to trigger the stem cells to do specific jobs. We now can achieve the same results by using a simple pair of stem cells anywhere and that's exciting. So, the near term future holds the promise of taking some simple stem cells from you, turning them into your stem cells, and giving them chemical instructions to do certain things. In my case, it would be to create new motor neurons for my brain and spinal cord where they'll re-attach to my muscles. In the case of other diseases, we're going to see that the same technology can rebuild the damaged liver, can rebuild your damaged heart, rebuild your damaged spinal cord, rebuild your damaged kidney, rebuild your damaged brain. So, the Science very shortly will be at the point where this learning will take root for humans. They're doing it in the labs today. My feeling is that if I am sitting here, certainly as a data point of one, I can say that stem cell therapy may not be the miracle cure, but it also is not injuring me further. And I, for one, would stand up and be a long-term candidate for anyone who wants to show me this new advancement called Induced Pluripotent Stem Cell--because they are inducing your stem cells to do a specific job. Then anyone tells me they're available can try it on me tomorrow, I'm going there!

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Manning: Sure!

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Mackney: Unfortunately, I don't see that happening tomorrow in the U.S. I see it happening in another country.

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Up Next: In Part 2 of this special edition of "The Interview", Rich addresses what we must do to take on ALS and many other diseases that regenerative medicine can help with Stem Cell Therapy.

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Website Contact for Rich Mackney Warriors:
http://themackneywarriors.wordpress.com
Stay in touch with Rich!

Together we can win the fight against Lou Gehrig's Disease!

THE INTERVIEW: AIRLINE CEO GORDON BETHUNE (CONCLUSION)

Airbus A380: "The airplane won't sell in this country at all".

Bethune's Last Project at Boeing: The 737-800

Author's Note: This morning Gordon and I talk about the controversial Airbus A380 jet aircraft and a comment by Robert Crandall, former chief of American Airlines. Years ago, I was asked to Emcee a ceremony at a Flight Museum to present awards to Arizona Senator Barry Goldwater and then-American Airlines Chief Robert Crandall for their "contributions to commercial aviation". While I was humbled by their request, I declined. I explained in a letter to the museum officials that I liked Barry Goldwater, but my principles prevented me from showing up to hand an award to Bob Crandall. His acrimonious relationship with labor and flagrant abuse of the rules of competition in the business world just put me off. Now that's just my opinion. To be fair, Bob's innovative practice of computerized yield management with Tom Plaskett's "Super Saver" fares is laudable.

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Gordon and I tackle the issue of flat-learning in this country and wind up talking about his future. Recently Gordon returned to his offices in Houston after spending so much time shuttling between Delta's Atlanta based headquarters and Northwest's former headquarters in Eagen, Minnesota. Gordon needed no prompting from me. We discussed my late friend Martin R. Shugrue, Jr. and how prophetic his views were about the Airbus A380 and so many consumer issues that nobody is addressing. We picked it up from there. Make sure your seat belts are securely fastened. And again, if bad language offends you just remember. It didn't come from me...

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Bethune: Michael, you asked a question earlier about how other airlines are getting off-track. I think sometimes they measure the wrong stuff. I noticed that the (Airbus) A380 was here (in the United States on a press tour).

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Manning: Well, and I told you about a 1997 conversation Marty (Shugrue) and I held where he said the only place you can fly that plane successfully is in the Asian market---and then for only a limited window--about 6 months out of the year. Unless that is, they plan on building an airport out in the ocean somewhere. Well, look! They did build an airport in the middle of the ocean---and it's sinking! (Kai Tak Airport was replaced in 1998 by Hong Kong International Chek Lap Kok). He had an uncommon foresight---with all due respect to you, Gordon!

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Bethune: Marty---(shaking his head)--such a loss. I knew him and I liked Marty. We lived fairly close to each other in the same neighborhood.

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Manning: It's not the same anymore without him in the industry, I'll tell ya that. But talk to me about the Airbus A380?

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Bethune: Well, I asked myself. 'Who do you think decided that bigger was better?' Some engineer or some government official who wanted to crow about how their airplane was bigger than your airplane. But did they ask people who buy tickets, 'What's in it for you to wait in line with 600 people waiting to get on board? To get off with 600 people? To wait for your bag with 600 people? If you're flying internationally, will you have to wait in customs and immigration with 600 other people? How does that help you? The answer is it doesn't!

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Manning: How will Flight Attendants handle 600 people who panic in an emergency?

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Bethune: That's another consideration. They measured the wrong thing and got the wrong stuff. The argument is that the skies are too crowded with 757's and regional jets. So, they're trying to sell this thing by telling you when you can fly and how often. People don't want to be told when they can fly. They want frequencies that accommodate their schedules with clean, safe, comfortable planes to fly them to where they want to go when they want to go! (Leans into the table again and lowers his voice): You fill three of those son of a bitches from Los Angeles to New York on any given day and ya know what I'll do? I'll schedule (Boeing) 757's to leave at 6 AM, 8 AM , 10 AM, 12 PM, 2 PM, 4 PM, 6 PM and BAM! I'll steal the goddamn business away from you! The airplane won't sell in this country at all. None! Not one American airline has ordered it and they never will. It doesn't fit our markets! You take American wanting to be the biggest airline in the world. They buy TWA (Trans World Airlines). Remember TWA?

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Manning: I interviewed Jeff Erickson (former TWA CEO) twice in downtown St. Louis. I knew that company inside-out. Hell of a success story back in 2000. That was sad.

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Bethune: Yeah. How did that work out for them?

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Manning: Oh, horrible. American unemployed some 20,000 people and sold off the assets, never invested in Lambert (St. Louis Lambert International Airport). In fact, I remember them closing Terminal D. All the Flight Attendants' jobs were lost. They kept around 500 pilots, if that. Parked perfectly good (Boeing) 767's in the desert because the cockpit panel switches were reversed. Sold off the brand new (Boeing) 717's and cancelled the rest of the orders as I recall. They now hold all those worldwide dormant route authorities throughout Europe and Africa and Asia and The Middle East that they'll never fly. A disaster. Stupid. That was a pre-emptive strike, assuming that the United-US Airways deal would have made it. When it didn't, they looked like the dumbest guys on earth. But they wanted to be the biggest...

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Bethune: And Michael, nobody gives a shit whether you're the biggest airline in the world. You either make money or you don't. You never saw Herb Kelleher (former Chairman and CEO of Southwest Airlines) worrying about being the biggest airline n the world. Flying to all 50 states---that was United's big claim. I think they went to North Dakota just so they could say that. How good is that for you? I think when Continental put in a flight from Newark to Hong Kong, United put in a flight from JFK to Hong Kong so it could be longer than our flight---58 miles or so. But they didn't have the (Boeing) 777. They had to use the (Boeing) 747 and they could only carry like 60 people on it because of payload restrictions, where we had an unrestricted payload because we had the right equipment on the proper routing. So, wanting to be the longest flight? How did measuring success like that work out for you? I noticed they went bankrupt. Maybe because of too much of that type of thinking. I think that most failures, and I mean the mediocrity you see, is people measuring the wrong stuff. I got a bigger airplane than you got! That's god, that's really smart.

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Manning: I want to run a comment past you from former American Airlines CEO Bob Crandall. He stated that airlines that cut fares below cost while they are under Chapter 11 bankruptcy harm the healthier carriers and ought to be shut down. How do you respond?

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Bethune: Bob would be right if that were true. And I like Bob Crandall a lot. What I saw in the United, Northwest and Delta bankruptcies is that the creditors' committees put a lot of pressure on the testosterone management to knock that behavior off. They want to see profitability restored. So, you saw a huge reduction in the available seat miles; Cincinnati (a Delta hub) got pulled back. I did see them lowering costs pretty dramatically through renegotiation's of airplane leases and labor rates so they could make a profit at a lower fare. And that put pressure on the guys with higher costs. But that's the name of the game. I've often thought had I the opportunity that Southwest had, where they were smart enough to buy fuel hedges, that I would have taken the benefit and priced my product as if I was paying 70 dollars a barrel like everyone else at that time. I would have taken the profits and put it in the bank. They didn't; they priced so that they could still make some money but Delta, United and Northwest couldn't. I think that helped drive those three into bankruptcy, whereupon they used that process to get rid of their pension costs. cut costs in airplanes, cut some labor. You have to come back out now with a much lower cost basis than you have at Southwest. Southwest hedges are expiring, so now they're going to have to price to the same oil that everyone else does. But these guys are much leaner and tougher competitors. And at Southwest, the costs have gone up. I'm sure it's a tactic. But I do know that the bankruptcy process did allow those three carriers to dramatically reshape themselves and to cut a lot of crap that had built up over 60 years. And they're very, very competitive as is US Airways.

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Manning: But do you think Chapter 11 is a band-aid or a long-term fix?

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Bethune: We suffer from flat learning in this country. We learn the same shit over and over again. I already hear labor leaders crying out, 'Let's go back to the old ways and let's get that again'. MIchael, do you know that a walrus isn't born fat and ugly---they become that way? So, if you want a date, you gotta kinda slim down and keep yourself in shape. And you know, there's going to be a Jet Green, a Jet Yellow, a Jet Red ---I mean it's never gonna stop! So if you get fat and ugly again, some one's just going to take it away from you---just like they have taken it. Who are the big losers? The employees lost the most with the pensions and incomes. Well, don't let that happen to you again! The guy that overeats is the one that dies. Where there's a management that says, 'Fine. We have to sign this contract, that we know that if we do will put us at a very non-competitive situation and will ultimately kill us'. Don't sign it! 'If we don't sign it they're going to strike and take the company out'. Well, take it! Shit, you're going to go broke anyway! It might as well be them that causes it and not you. How do you pull a band-aid off? If you do it fast, do it quick. One hair at a time or get that goddamn thing off---it's got to come off! Get it over with. United, Delta, Northwest and others were a victim of compromise---another layer of fat, another deal they shouldn't have signed, another concession. Take your medicine now. Don't let that build up, because you're gonna die.

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Manning: We gotta wrap this up. What are you most proud of?

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Bethune: (hesitates to think) I'm proud of my limited role at Boeing, my personal contribution is the Next-Generation 737 (-800). Ron Woodard had really set the airplane off. I took over from Ron and the service ceiling on the three-seven was 37,000 feet. The airplanes I flew, the 757/767 (the cockpits are similar, so a rating on one gives you a rating on both) were 41,000 feet airplanes. We came out with the 737-700, the one that we sold to Southwest. Phil Condit---president at the time---told me that he wanted an 800 model, a longer one which would have the seats of a (Boeing) 727. And he wanted that airplane to fly from New York to Los Angeles; and he anted it to carry 150 people. Because the fuse-bonding with the wings was going to be the same, we had to get more fuel so we put in a bigger center wing tank. We made that standard, so we redesigned the center wing tank to make it bigger wit more fuel volume--no box tank--just a standard tank. I said, 'I want to take the airplane to 41,000 feet'. And I met a lot of resistance from engineering over the additional cots and time to strengthen the skin, because the thickness of the empennage and other parts of the pressurized body had to be changed because of the higher altitude. 'You guys get paid by the month. Just do it! Okay? But I want this airplane at four-one-zero'. Well, I was the general manager and everybody looked at me and said, 'OK'. Today, the 737-800 flies Newark to L.A. nonstop with 157 people at 41,000 feet. It's like a dog mark on a fire hydrant. The 737-800 that goes to 41,000 feet is my little posterity. And then Continental---obviously---I've been tremendously proud of the job that Larry (Kellner, Chairman & CEO) and Jeff (Smisek, president) have done. It wasn't just fixed up and burnished to look good. It's a structurally sound, good company, good product, good people, and I'm proud of that.

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Manning: And your future?

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Bethune: I just pick up the phone and say 'Hello'? I've got plenty of irons in the fire. But I want to do the things I really want to do. And that's kinda nice.

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THE INTERVIEW: AIRLINE CEO GORDON BETHUNE (PART 2 OF 3)

A reason for smiles...
(this guy's a "Character"...to put it mildly!)

Manning: What is your view on reforming the Chapter 11 process for airlines?

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Bethune: Continental wouldn't be here today if it weren't for Chapter 11. Its a second chance. If done wisely you can come out and be at the top of the industry again, from the worst to the first. But you have to fix the company. The courts have an obligation to look at every one's rights, not just yours, because you're not paying bills. Who gets paid and how is contentious! It's like fighting over a carcass. I wish it were simple. The guys who run companies into bankruptcy wish everybody would go away and leave them alone. So, some body's put the thing in the tank and now every body's paying the price. My advice to others? 'Don't screw it up'.

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Manning: Frank Lorenzo was a tough guy to follow at Continental. (Editor's Note: Lorenzo was born in Queens, New York along side the runways of LaGuardia Airport. He is the son of a Spanish immigrant family who operated a beauty salon. He put himself through Columbia driving a Coca-Cola truck. Barbara Walters once called him "The most hated man in America". Pilots refused to take off if Lorenzo was on board a Continental flight. It became so bad, that he wouldn't drink from an open soft drink can if a flight attendant handed it to him.

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Bethune: (arches his eyebrow and leans into the boardroom table) Do you know that Frank Lorenzo and Texas Air (parent of Continental) had the cheapest fares---tore up all the labor contracts, tore up all the airplane contracts, had the lowest cost product in the industry---absolutely the lowest? What happened? They went bankrupt again in 1990. It ain't all about the low cost. Let's say that you would reduce the cost of pizza by doing something smart like taking the cheese off? How many pizzas are you going to sell? Can you make a pizza so cheap that nobody will eat it? Can you make an airline so cheap nobody will fly it? We did it. Still went bankrupt!

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Manning: Tough lesson, and almost a third time.

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Bethune: That's right! Came out in 1993 and almost went bankrupt again in 1995. Why is that? Lowest costs but still a shitty company, still a shitty product, crummy morale. That's not the kind of airline you want to fly. So we asked creditors, 'How can we help you place an airplane that we can't afford to pay for?' We put the Airbus A300 in places like India. We sent crews to train Indian pilots so that the lessors could have some cash instead of us just stiffing them. We worked with General Electric and Boeing on pushing orders back and getting some of our cash deposits back. We did a lot of things to facilitate our liquidity and to honor our obligations to the extent that we could. All of those companies still want to do business with Continental. We at the same time needed to be on-time because we needed a good product. And we needed to treat our people well. But the marketplace will decide what good is.

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Manning: I went back and looked at some film of your testimony in 2001 before a Senate subcommittee. And you said that you were opposed to the proposed mega-mergers such as American with TWA and United and US Airways. What are your views on airline consolidation today?

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Bethune: Look, that was pre-9/11. A United and US Airways merger clearly was not good for Continental. And my job was to represent Continentals employees and shareholders. Our intention, when we put a bid in for TWA and opposed the American deal, was not to allow a takeover without taking over TWA's pensions. They reluctantly agreed to accept the pension costs. We wanted to load up American with as much debt as we could because usually what's good for American is bad for Continental. A lot of our business is to stop your competitor from getting a good deal-to stop your competitor from getting too big or gaining an advantage. If he's buying something, make sure he pays too much. It's a tough business and if it's good for Continental, I'll be for it. If it's bad for Continental, I'll be against it.

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Manning: Are there any potential mergers you see that make good economic sense?

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Bethune: United and Continental makes a lot of sense! American-Northwest makes a lot of sense. I thought US Air and Delta might make some sense.

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Manning: You did? I can't believe that. I thought you were against it. It made sense?

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Bethune: Absolutely! I didn't say it didn't make sense. My job was to handicap the probability of success versus the handicap of Delta's stand-alone success and give advice. We don't need 15 to 20 air carriers. Do we always add airlines Michael, and never get rid of any? Do we not consolidate? Why wouldn't the big boys try and get some scales of economies to fight the ever-encroaching low-cost carriers? Five or eight years ago, low-cost carriers were 10% of the market. Now they're 35%. It's changed the competitive landscape.

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Manning: Alright, former US Airways Group CEO David Siegel says that he sees a shakeout where we'll end up with three "Legacy Carriers" and probably three low-cost, low-fare carriers.

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Bethune: Well, David's logical. But what's ever happened in our industry that's been logical in the last ten or fifteen years? What keeps it from happening? What's in it for an airline CEO to make an acquisition of another airline? He's not going to get a raise. He's going to get all this trouble, all this heartburn, all these integration problems. The guy who gets acquired---if he agrees to step aside---gets his severance, gets his options cashed out at the acquisition price, gets his shit load of money and goes home. The guy who's want to make the purchase would want to do it because it would be good for the company. But personally, he wouldn't want to do it, because he could be a failure. And why not play it safe and get a check and go give a speech in Hong Kong and ride in limos? There's only the fear of failure. Now if they're forced to do something---like the competitive landscape's changing and they're going to die---they will do the things they need to do because there's something in it for them. That's called security and tenure. They're not many guys that will do what's in the company's or the employee's best interest over their own.

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Manning: Okay, what is your view of a coherent aviation policy for the 21st Century?

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Bethune: I don't look to Congress to do anything but get re-elected, and whatever that takes they'll do that. We suffer in this country from a sense of entitlement, that we're still a regulated industry and you have the right to a night in the Four Seasons (luxury hotel) if we cancel you hundred-dollar ticket to someplace because of a rainstorm or something. Of course, somebody ought to do something if we're stuck on the runway and can't get off, or we may have some damages. Congress and others have a knee-jerk reaction to whatever it is--peanut free zones in the airplane, double the number of crews because you're over the 16 hours without any scientific basis for those kind of regulations. We're the most 'regulated-deregulated' industry that I've ever seen! We're run like a public utility. It's difficult to work in that environment. If Congress would take the word 'airline' out of their vocabulary, we would be better off. Congress is not here to help you, they're here to meddle and make life much more difficult for you---and they have! And they haven't helped the consumer. In pre-9/11, they talked about customer satisfaction and a customer bill of rights---most of those issues were because the Air Traffic Control system didn't work in this country with the volumes we had. When they said that there were too many flights scheduled into the New York area, the flights were full of people. How could there be too many flights if they were full? Who do we tell can't go to New York today? Who gets to decide? Airlines are in the business of taking people where they want to go. I think we need an ATC system that's user-based, fee-based, stand-alone outside of the budget process. Borrow money and make the investment they need to make in the technology to optimize the ATC system so that the people who want to go there can get there. They need to accommodate what the public wants, not decide you can't do it.

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We don't need a law that it's against the law to lose your bag! In other words if we lose a bag, it takes 25 to 50 bucks depending on where we have to deliver that bag to you the next day. We didn't make that much on the ticket. We're already motivated not to lose the bag! Making it against the law and fining someone to lose your bag is like whipping the horse when he's running flat-out! That's Congress's way of addressing the issue. They (the government) actually came to Bush (Intercontinental) Airport and counted the number of people in line and said we had too many people in line. And I asked, 'How long were the people in line?' He said, 'We didn't notice that'. There were a lot of people in line, but the lines moved very fast. I was only there for three minutes. So, what difference does it make how long the line is versus how long you had to stand in line? I said, 'Did you ever try to get a passport? How long is that line? Ever try to visit the Statue of Liberty? You're a line-measurer; we're in the customer satisfaction business. If you leave people in line, they just go someplace else! The government ought to stay out of it! They're the worst at customer satisfaction.

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TOMORROW: GORDON TAKES AIM AT THE AIRBUS A380

& WE LOOK AT HIS FUTURE TO CLOSE OUT OUR VISIT!

THE INTERVIEW: AIRLINE CEO GORDON BETHUNE (PART 1 OF 3)

This interview took place prior to Delta Air Line's acquisition of
Northwest Airlines, Inc., which is now a Delta subsidiary. I have been
asked to reprint it for industry professionals and the flying public.
-MIchael Manning

Gordon Bethune is a character. His New York Times best-selling book "From Worst to First" is a bare knuckled explanation of how he took over Continental Airlines--then an absolute financial basket case after the tenure of the notorious corporate raider Frank Lorenzo who relentlessly focused on cost-cutting and acquisitions. With a lot of boldness and risk-taking, Bethune pulled off a stunning turnaround of Continental from a "Legacy Carrier" that employees hated to work at as much as passengers hated flying to becoming the best in the industry.

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From the son of a crop duster pilot father to Navy mechanic to holding senior management positions at Western Airlines (folded into Delta Air Lines in 1987) and the now defunct Braniff International (widely regarded as the first casualty of Airline Deregulation) Bethune became vice president and general manager of The Boeing Commercial Airplane Group's Renton Division where he was responsible for the 737 and 757 programs. A commercial-rated pilot and an A&P (Airframe and Powerplant) mechanic he is type rated on the 757 and the Douglas DC-3.

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I met with him on the 44th Floor of Continental Airline's world headquarters in downtown Houston. The Continental Airlines that Bethune inherited was an amalgamation of Frank Lorenzo's mercurial management style that witnessed no less than nine presidents in as many years. Continental was the first airline subjected to a hostile takeover by a then 32 year old Lorenzo, a graduate of Columbia and later a Harvard MBA. It was Lorenzo whose ruthless get-tough tactics with labor forced the most visible and widely felt strike in American labor history at Eastern Airlines. It also led to Lorenzo being declared incompetent (by The United States Bankruptcy Court in The Southern District of New York) to reorganize Eastern's estate. Eastern was shut down on January 19, 1991. To distance itself from the embarrassment of losing control of an airline it legally still owned to a court appointed Trustee, Texas Air Corporation (TAC) was quickly renamed Continental Airline Holdings. The airline is an amalgamation of the following mergers: Texas International, New York Air, Frontier Airlines, People Express, Eastern Airlines, and commuter airlines including Britt Airways, Provincetown-Boston Airways and Bar Harbor Airways. In 1990, Lorenzo who briefly owned the largest airline empire in the world, was forced to step down from the business for good. After two more CEO's came and went, Continental found itself in Chapter 11 a second time. Bethune gambled, leaving behind a stable position at Boeing to rescue Continental--a risky proposition. But the turnaround was remarkable and today, among the "Legacy Carriers" Continental is regarded as a Class Act. He served as Chairman and CEO.

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Last October 30, 2008 one of the oldest names in commercial aviation ceased to exist: Northwest Airlines. Northwest (itself an amalgamation of Southern, Republic, North Central and Hughes Airwest) merged with Delta Air Lines as the surviving entity. I sat down with Bethune just weeks after he was hired by Delta as a "Consultant" to advise their board on the proposed merger between Phoenix, Arizona-based US Airways and Delta. Bethune was re-hired as a Consultant when Delta courted Northwest Airlines (formerly Northwest Orient). His answers were quite revealing.

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Manning: You recently evaluated the $10.2 billion offer from Doug Parker over at US Airways to take over Delta Air Lines. Give us your impressions of Delta's circumstances and what was ailing that carrier?

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Bethune: Delta had the best balance sheet in the industry. No one had a healthier balance sheet with regard to cash position, debt-to-equity; all the things that you would want. The erosion of Delta occurred over a ten to twelve-year period when it was mismanaged. The board and management were incompetent as evidenced by their slide into Chapter 11. Chapter 11 won't fix your company. It'll fix your balance sheet and restructures things. But if you go into bankruptcy a crummy company and your don't change--you come out a crummy company. Just like Continental did in 1983 and went back into bankruptcy in 1990 because it didn't change. Delta needs to change. Otherwise I don't think it has a future.

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Manning: Many of us have questioned how Delta can survive in the long-term as an independent carrier after eliminating 15% of its domestic route network in favor of international routes. What would you have done differently?

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Bethune: I would have started years ago. Maybe I wouldn't wait until you were in bankruptcy to address the fact that you're failing. Delta needs to find its niche. It has a very good hub operation in Atlanta; I think Cincinnati is a very secondary hub, as is Salt Lake City. And it needs to diversify its sources of income. Just as in your investment portfolio you wouldn't put all your eggs in one basket. Nor would you put all of your money in the domestic market. So, you'd use some of the international routes to hedge the economy domestically so when it goes into the tank, you don't go into the tank! Management at Delta is dong something that should have been done years ago. Delta needs to make a dent in the New York market; Los Angeles seems like a smart move and should be exploited.

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Manning: There are rumors that you will be asked to take the helm at Delta.

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Bethune: (starts laughing) I wouldn't do it! First of all, I'm a Continental guy. All my friends are here in Houston. (Gerald) Grinstein made---I think---$350,000 last year. Now, why would you want to work for that kind of money, and take all the heartburn, crap and negative publicity, and the hard work? I think the people who now run the place Michael, kinda like running it want to keep on running it. I'm not sure that companies always do what's best for the company. They do what's best for the incumbents inside the company.

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Manning: Many predicted that Delta would spin-off Comair as it did with ASA (Atlantic Southeast Airways).

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Bethune: As you saw with ExpressJet (Continental Express) we divested ourselves 100%. You don't need to own your regional feed carriers. When you do own them, often they use your pay and benefits to leverage themselves. Combining seniority lists from regional pilots to the mainline was always on the table at Continental while I was there. They (the unions) wanted to ave (pilots) progress through the ranks. That's an extension of Continentals costs. Regional and mainline are two very different markets and they have very different costs and pay structures. If you get yourself burdened with mainline pay structures at a regional carrier, you're certainly at a disadvantage. We spun them off because we needed the money. We didn't want to be that leveraged in paying more than we had to pay for regional services. As an independent company, they had to compete with other independent companies and can't leverage us because we have alternatives that if they won't give us services for a price we're willing to pay, we'll get it from someone else. When you own them, you don't have to pay that leverage---they have it on you. I saw Delta buy Comair just at the time we're selling (Continental) Express. I said, 'How dumb can you be? You're going the wrong way!' It's almost like a tape worm.

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Manning: A tape worm?

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Bethune: A tape worm. It goes where you go, it eats what you eat, dies when you die. How do you extricate yourself? You need an independent source of regional services to supply you, and you don't need to own it. It's against your best interests.

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Manning: Okay, so where are the 'Legacy Carriers' (American, Delta, United, Continental, Northwest and US Airways) running amok?

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Bethune: I think they do things that are more window dressing than they are fundamental. Airlines ought to be really good at something. Take American, Delta, United or Northwest. What one thing would one of those airlines excel at? I can't tell you. They all seem kind of mediocre to me. Continental decided to be the best at reliability, and customer satisfaction is measured by reliability. Getting there on time safely would be something we could excel at---and we did. That rove the J.D. Powers Awards. That drove a lot of revenue. It also reduces expenses because yo don't have overtime, you don't have disruptive operations. Continental became known as the most consistent product. Be good at something! Don't just be mediocre.

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Manning: There doesn't seem to be any real marketing differentiation between those four airlines?

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Bethune: They're not innovative people! I think for the large part most people who can't cut it in the pharmaceutical industry come to our business because it's easier to compete because the lower level of intelligence and the expertise is kinda low. That's the only reason I was able to do something. The competition wasn't that rough. Otherwise I'd have been a failure.

We resume tomorrow!

DIPG: THE INTERVIEW PRESENTS BRIAN & JANELLE JONES ([PART 4 OF 4)

Brian & Janelle Jones

Natalie Rose Jones
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Brian: Janelle and I went to a workshop two weeks after Natalie passed away. We had a funeral in Montana and a memorial service in Minneapolis. We went to church two weeks later and his topic was "Our Callings". We listened to his sermon and we thought it was really good and so we stayed for his workshop afterward and one of the things we did during Question and Answer time, we had tablets and pencils and one of the questions was 'What if you had 6 months to live? What would you do?' And man alive, you could hear the pencils on the paper! You could hear the scribble, scribble, scribble, and the pages turning. Erase and scribble, scribble, scribble and I'm sitting there and I'm not writing anything. And Janelle's sitting there next to me and she says' 'What did you write?' and I showed her and I said 'What did you write?' and she showed me nothing.

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Manning: Ha! Isn't that something!

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Brian: When you've lived what he said. When you've lived what his question was, there is no answer. And when you walk the life that is taught by religions to live your life in a God-Like manner like Him, is what all religions talk about...when you walk that, there is no nothing to say. When you are that close to the one you call Creator, you cannot write anything down. That's the life that we've lived since Natalie was diagnosed.

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Janelle: Well, you've heard that 'Living your life as a prayer'. We all profess to make that effort to live our life as a prayer. You know what? For that five-and-a-half months we lived that. We lived out life as a prayer. We'd get up in the morning and we'd pray and we'd pray before meals and to know you're in the presence of someone who may not be physically present with you the next day, so you take that very moment and have so much gratitude for that moment. No matter what it looks like.Because if we could take that and feel that in our bodies, we wouldn't hurt each other. We wouldn't treat each other badly. We did that for five-and-a-half-months.

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Manning: It would change the world, wouldn't it?

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Janelle: It would change the world.

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Brian: It changed our world forever, and the world of our children, and the world of our family. The people who came into that house. We had a room set up that used to be a TV Room, a dining room, it was a foyer. And people would come to that table and just pray. I mean they would just take off their shoes and sit there and pray. We had the upstairs living room, and I mean there wasn't a TV in there or anything and that became Natalie's' room. If she was in her chair that was fine, but at night, we'd bring up the mat and lay there on the floor, and Janelle and I would lay down on each side of her. She was never in a room by herself...ever!

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Manning: How loving!

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Brian: You know what? She never was to begin with. We would always read to her. So when she would go to bed, Mom and Dad would spend that 20 or 30 minutes of special time. There was no go into the room and shut the door and go to sleep. This is the way it was.

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Manning: Totally transparent and real.

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Brian: Today we can go to the grocery store and we see kids...they don't even look anything like Natalie. We see the beauty of this child who is alive. And then we see sad things in the store too. Sometimes we'd like to take that parent aside and say, 'You know what? No.You don't realize how lucky you are'. And I do think we have a message and a story to tell.

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Janelle: That attitude of alertness in A-A about having an attitude of gratitude. I never really saw her a victim. This was a process she went through. And I still get angry. I get angry at the suffering sometimes. But I'm also amazed at her ability to go through what she did with the grace that she did.

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Brian: Oh, yeah. I mean. Looking back on her schedule. I mean, I had radiation before with my testicular cancer. I went through it, but not like that. I mean, I had that in a different region in my body. But I know the taste in my mouth, and I had some of the complications,I know. But not the way Natalie did. And all these kids die the same way. Their breathing and their heart rate get out of whack like they're running a race and their system just shuts down and they go to sleep. Some of them are more painful than others. We were blessed. She was blessed. Her doctors said, 'When we get sick, can we come over your house and have you guys take care of us?' And we said 'Sure'. And I really, truly believe that. They know the love that Natalie truly received. The sad part of it is, we talked with them that if another parent comes in and their child is diagnosed with this, you can call us and we'll call them, or talk with them and we'll introduce ourselves. And they thought: 'What a gift! What a gift!' And then it went from 'What a gift!' ...that was their heart opening up...and then society closed it back up and then they said, 'You know. Other parents aren't going to want to talk to parents that have lost a child'.

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Manning: Who decided that?

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Brian: Probably some statistician. They had their hearts wide-open because of the compassion and the love that we have. But then everything that we see, and our system callouses people, their emotions and everything. That, 'Okay I've got this great family that I can call...Brian and Janelle--Natalie's Mom and Dad and they can come down here and we would just have to say, 'Is there anything we can do to help?' Whether it's two weeks later and they take our card and just call us and say, 'Hey, you went through this'. It's just that parents don't want to talk to another parent who lost a child. This is a different group...250 children throughout the world and there is no research. We offered Natalie's' brain stem and it's just hit and miss. Sometimes there is and sometimes there's not. And everybody wants to raise money for research. No. Our doctors have already been told and people that we've worked with that 'No. We're not donating money to research. We're not doing fund raising for research. We will do fundraisers and we will do our work with our foundation for families, so the father doesn't have to go to work or the mother doesn't have to go to work, offer scholarships whether it's house payments or car payments or whatever because the truth is,' Yeah, we do know'. We do know from our experience that the life expectancy is this long. And I want that life expectancy with these parents and these parents to be without a little bit of stressed to be one-hundred-percent focused on this child. I mean, Make-A-Wish is great. They send you to wherever and they get the gifts and stuff. We want something different.

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Janelle: How about if we paid the electric bill for six months so their stress is alleviated?

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Brian: If that means going and talking to an employer and saying, 'Hey, John here. I know you know about his child and all being sick'. I mean I was blessed. I was given a lesson, because my company was an employee owned company and they just donated vacation time. So that from the time Natalie was diagnosed until after she died I never went back to work. I wasn't making the money I was making when I was working. But I knew that there would be a check there waiting every week. Then when that ran out, when their vacation time that they donated ran out, they did some other things so it was...

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Manning: ...How wonderful!

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Brian: ...Yes. And I mean, when they had a fundraiser, we would be there. They were very supportive. And it showed me because I've read on other blogs and other Caringbridge sites that there are families that aren't this way. That they've got to go back to work, they've got to work or they will lose their insurance. We would be willing to go talk with this employer. Because some thing's got to change and Natalie showed us this by giving and then by becoming a taker and we are family. Any family whose child is diagnosed with DIPG, we become bonded through the universe as a tight-knit family. And that's a fact. Just like when I came to Arizona and met the four children that I met, Gunner, Megan, Hailey and Caitlin...they all knew who I was. There was that connection. And the world would be a better place if we listened to our children because they have all the answers.

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Janelle: And to listen to our hearts.

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Brian: And listen to our hearts.

####

Note from Michael Manning: This interview was planned well over one-year in advance. I cannot emphasize the tremendous amount of thought that The Jones' and I put into this visit. Their love for one another is strong and their message is one of Hope. There was a lot of deep Love and sharing here through both laughter and tears. I am exceedingly Grateful to Brian and Janelle for the Gift of their time with me. Through my BLOG feature, "The Interview," we are posted now on the worldwide web, and this visit of record is made available on the crawler so that parents of children with DIPG who are seeking more information have another means through which they can reach out for help as they begin "putting one foot in front of the other" to begin the difficult task of building a bridge from yesterday to the present.

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My heartfelt thanks also goes out to all of you who visited us along this 4-part interview during National Childhood Cancer Awareness Month!
With Love,
Michael